Interview with Tom Terwilliger

UX3 Restoration Radio drills down with Tom Terwilliger on how he went from outlaw biker to Mr Universe to host of a top TV show for 17 years and is not a top personal development and fitness coach.

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John Rowley: Hi, this is John Rowley, welcome to UX3 Restoration Radio. Today I’ve got a great guest, old friend, we’ve known each other for a long time, we’ve reconnected in recent years through social media. He’s been kind enough to meet me here, we’re in the gym at the 4 seasons, which I think is appropriate for this interview. His name is Tom Terwilliger. How are you?

Tom Terwilliger: I’m good, I’m going to call you Johnny Boy, because is that what they used to call you in the neighborhood?

John Rowley: I’m Johnny Boy, I’m about.

Tom Terwilliger: Good to be here man, I appreciate it.

John Rowley: I appreciate it. Give them the low down on you, times on the gym, blah blah blah, give them your bachelor.

Tom Terwilliger: Geez man, I go … Certainly in terms of the fitness business, I go back many years. I opened my first athletic club in New York in Long Island back in 1987, after winning the National Bodybuilding championships, the Mr America title, which I strived for for countless years. Took me 3 to win it, 3rd place, 2nd place, and ultimately, let me tell you something, you talk about restoration and tenacity, not to blow my own horn in that respect, but it was a lesson, it was such a powerful lesson. Coming back that 3rd year, because the 3rd year was certainly the most challenging for me in terms of winning that national championship, I ran into the greatest emotional, psychological obstacles, much more than I did the first or second year or so, because it was about validation. It was just like “I’ve got a shot to really be this champion, not just compete for this championship, but actually be it, you know?” All this negative resistance came up. “You’re not that guy, you’re not a champion, you can’t be Mr America.” I started wrestling with all that, man. After winning the National Championships, the natural progression was, like a lot of athletes do in this field, open your own gym, right? I had no clue what I was doing, I had no clue.

John Rowley: That’s a blessing, you wouldn’t have tried.

Tom Terwilliger: If I had known what I was getting into, I never would have done it. It’s like “Hey, raise some money, open a gym.” Literally, we really struggled for the first year or 2, then finally figured it out, because I was willing to be flexible in many respects, willing to learn, not just pretend “I can still do this,” until we go under. There were some things to be learned, right? My partner was also a fairly good business person, so he helped along the way in that respect. We opened up a second one, and moved here to Denver, Colorado, and opened up a few personal training studios with my wife, Dawn, who’s my business partner today. Along the way too, some really fun experiences happened. Again, a lot of that stems from that love of bodybuilding, love of the sport was … I’m doing a television show called Muscle Sport USA, did Muscle Sports USA on Fox Sports for about 16 years or so.

John Rowley: Great show too.

Tom Terwilliger: Oh yeah, it was fun, man. It was during that heyday of the bodybuilding and just the inception of the fitness and the figure competitions and stuff, we were right at the beginning of that. It was fun, man. Today, my wife and I, we’ve gotten out of the bricks and mortar gym business, we’ve gotten into the digital world, we’ve got some successful books out there, and a bestselling book called the 7 Rules of Achievement, that sort of opened the door into the coaching, mentorship arena, and producing digital products online. That’s kind of what we’re doing today.

John Rowley: We’ll get more into that, but the theme of this show is restoration, and you’ve got a pretty good backstory that you didn’t even touch on. You use bodybuilding as an escape?

Tom Terwilliger: I would call it a … I wouldn’t say it was an escape. It was a good way of putting it, but I would refer to it more as a savior. It was something, rather than the negative of an escape from something, because what I was leaving behind, I needed something to grab hold of, to help pull me out of that quagmire, and bodybuilding ultimately was that thing that I grabbed hold of.

John Rowley: What did you have to get pulled out of?

Tom Terwilliger: You know when you grew up in the neighborhood back in the day, we all did, right?

John Rowley: The neighborhood? Did you get in trouble in the neighborhood?

Tom Terwilliger: Absolutely, mine was, I didn’t necessarily grow up in a hardcore Brooklyn or Queens of Bronx neighborhood back in New York, but New York did, that place still had an influence on our little town of Massapequa Park.

John Rowley: My brother was in Massapequa.

Tom Terwilliger: Is that right? Really? Yeah, it’s an interesting town. I grew up with Brian Sensa from the Straight Cats, and Alec and Danny Baldwin. Danny Baldwin was part of our … He was the black sheep of the family, the Baldwin family. He was part of our crew. Of course, you know? I had developed some really disempowering beliefs about myself early on, having struggled with dyslexia, and hyperactivity. I guess because of those things, developed these learning challenges, these learning disabilities, we’ll say. As a result, the educational system didn’t know what to do with us, my twin brother and I. They put me into a special ed class, and in 4th grade, when you go into special ed class in the 4th grade or so, let’s face it, kids can be pretty cruel. They don’t know, they don’t understand.

John Rowley: I was in those classes too.

Tom Terwilliger: When your best friend from the year before won’t let you near their house because they’ve been calling you retard, it does something, right?

John Rowley: I made the kids in the special ed class look smart.

Tom Terwilliger: You’re making the rest of us look dumb at the moment, listen, you’re doing some things right, man. Somehow that intelligence has kind of snapped on and taken steam. It was difficult, you know, you had that experience yourself where you feel less then, and not as good as, and maybe not as good as, and maybe even start to develop. I did, certainly, this belief that I’m stupid. I’m not like everyone else, and I was always sort of fighting a lot. I became, the kids then called me the bully killer, because it was like “Hey, if I want to pick on the special ed class, it’s okay. I’m in the class with them. You fricken better not! If you do, you’re getting the boot, man.” Even in 4th, 5th grade, it was like bam, I started being the bully killer. Literally around 8 years old I started studying kung fu, so I had this ability that was going along with that, which was getting a little dangerous, you know? As a result of having those disempowering beliefs, even into high school, I carried those with me all the way into high school. I got my first Harley Davidson in 10th grade. Some kid had actually …

John Rowley: Were you licensed in New York, how old did you have to be?

Tom Terwilliger: Actually, you had to be 18. You could do a learner’s permit at 16, but not for a motorcycle. You had to have a licensed driver around you somewhere, within a mile or whatever it was. I got my first Harley Davidson, a 1954 Canhead, a rigid frame, 8 hangers, right? This thing was badass.

John Rowley: You wish you had it today.

Tom Terwilliger: I do, I wish I had that today. Ultimately I gave that to the Hell’s Angels, for another reason I won’t go into. In 10th and 11th grade, there’s not too many people riding around on Harley Davidsons. I still have a belief today that there’s only one sound better than a roaring Harley, that’s many roaring Harleys. I looked to connect with guys who were riding, so I started riding around Manhattan, just going to bars, anytime. If there was a place with 5, 6, 10, 20 bikes out front, I’d go in. Here I am, I’m 16, 17 years old, and going into these bars. I connected with the wrong people. I connected with one o the most notorious outlaw bike clubs in the world at that time, which was in a feud with another notorious outlaw bike club for territory. I started riding with the guys, never full patched, but became what they call a ride-along. For 5 years or so, the ultimatum kept being put out there. You’re either all in, or you’re out, you’re all in, or you’re out. Ultimately I kept wrestling with this idea that I’m better than this.

I started looking around myself, and there was 1 day in particular in the clubhouse, in Long Island. I remember at the end of the day, it was the bar, and it was just made out of plywood, and it was just green. We called it the green goblin. I was standing at the green goblin, and it was dark, and it was smoke-filled, broken glass in the mirror. I’m looking around, at guys, and I’m like “Holy crap, this is what I’m becoming?” I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and you talk about the truth was revealed when I looked in that mirror, because the mirror was shattered, and I kid you not, it was like one part of the broken mirror reflected who I was at that moment, and the other part of the mirror reflected who I could be. It was like 2 different people, and when I looked at the 1, it was like I was shocked. “This is who I’m becoming?” I looked around, and sure enough, another 5 years, 10 years, I would have been 40 years older, and still riding or dead. Many of my colleagues, many of my friends back then, are either dead or in prison today.

Something happened that was really interesting, because I heard the voice. I totally believe that it was God, or maybe my guardian angel, it could have been my deep unconscious mind as well. They said “You’re done, walk away.” I must have looked like a boxer, just been like boom, and now I’m laying on the mat, I’m hearing the guys saying, “9, 10, you’re out.” That’s what I felt like. I’m like “What?” I heard this voice, and I hear it again. It was like “You’re done, walk away.” It was so empowering, I could not ignore that voice. It was something I’d been wrestling with for 3 years anyway. My values weren’t in line, my true values really weren’t in line with that association, with that group for the most part. Sure enough, I said “That’s it, I’m done,” and I walked away. Literally as I’m walking to the door, I turn back. It was one of those moments when you turn back and you think about the decision you’ve made, and there’s something that says “Hey, this is the best decision you could possibly make,” but then there’s another part of your inner voice.

I call it the dragon, it wants to keep dragging us back, and said “This is a mistake, you’re going to pay a price for this, right?” Sure enough, I look back, and in that second, someone must have pushed on that rickety old bar, and knocked a double-barreled shotgun off the shelf, and both barrels went off through the bar and there was no other space, where everybody was at the bar. Only 1 space that was vacant, that was the one I’d vacated a few seconds ago, both barrels went off through that bar and blew a massive hole into where I was standing just seconds ago. It was confirmation that I did the right thing. I never looked back again. I paid a price, it was a big price to pay for walking away from that thing, but ultimately the price was well worth what became a restoration of my life, and my spirit and my body, certainly, from that point forward.

John Rowley: You walked away, you were training before that, you were working out during that time as well?

Tom Terwilliger: Barely. That was the time, that 5-year period or so, because I’d been competing as a teenager, as a bodybuilder. I did pretty well, I won East Coast, I won several fairly high level teenage bodybuilding competitions. This was something that maybe you guys can resonate with if you really think about it. Just like the nationals, when I got close to winning that championship, all of a sudden all the internal resistance started to come up. It manifested as external resistance, that’s the illusion, by the way. We think all the resistance we’re running into, the stuff we can’t control, it’s all out here, nope, it’s all in here. All that stuff can fade away and dissolve once you make a decision about who you really are and what you’re capable of inside, and you align that with your values, particularly with the strength of God to help you and support you in that respect. For me as a teenager, I started climbing this ladder, and I was really enjoying it, just as an athlete. Training with those guys, listening to that hardcore gym future man, sweating and puking. My first workout, I puked my guts up in that gym, right?

I loved it, I just loved that connection, that tribe. I found the tribe again in the motorcycle world, and I kind of left that thing behind. I now know, I didn’t recognize that then, but I now recognize that I was starting to climb out of that hole that I dug for myself in those early beliefs that I’m not good enough, I’m not as good as anyone else, I’m dumb, I don’t belong, and like the biker community, I was a 1%er. I was disassociated from the rest of society. I started to climb out of that hole, becoming a champion as a teenager, and ultimately I recognize today that my unconscious mind would not let me get to that next level, the ultimate next level, which was “Hey, you know what, you really are a champion, you really can do something, you are productive, you’re a member of society and you can contribute in many respects.” Instead, it [inaudible 00:12:06], it said “Hey, take a month off from training.” Then it was a year, next thing it was 5 years, and I’m beat up, drugged out, alcoholed out, riding a beat up old Harley Davidson with some of the most undesirable people you ever want to meet in your life.

John Rowley: That’s what the unconscious mind can do and that’s what you have to make …

Tom Terwilliger: It can do that, it’s going to pull you wherever it wants if you let it, and your brain is going to be influenced by what goes in it, depending on who you’re hanging out with. Most of us use the word tribe, but most of us need to be in a tribe, need to be in some kind of a community of support, and if you’re not in an empowering one you’re going to be in a disempowering one.

John Rowley: When you left that word, and you went into business, you went into becoming a bodybuilder and becoming everything else, do you feel that the discipline of bodybuilding, the discipline of sports, the predictable, somewhat predictable results, you lift a weight, you’re going to get a result, you think that helped transform you and helped restore your life to where you are today?

Tom Terwilliger: No question, no question. That’s a great question and a great observation, because that’s exactly what it did for the most part. Not even for the most part, it did. There were 3 things, the support of my family, who knew I was better than this. God, it really was spiritual, my mother was very Catholic, I grew up in a very Catholic family, I call myself Catholic today more than Christian. I had that fundamental belief and that support that I wasn’t alone in this journey, if I held my faith, held on to that faith, which was rapidly slipping away, by the way, in that environment. No pun intended, it’s a pagan environment.

John Rowley: It’s hard to live a Godly life when you’re ungodly.

Tom Terwilliger: It’s impossible. When you’re witnessing crime to crime, these guys are felons, it’s like “Holy mackarel, you will be sucked down into that hole for the most part. My faith, my family and certainly bodybuilding. One of the first things that I said to myself once I left that environment was “Okay, now what?” I knew the first place that I had to start was with my physiology. I’d been beaten down, abusing drugs, abusing alcohol, I’d been stabbed, I’d been beaten, I’d had my arms … I went down several times, my body was beaten and I hadn’t been training. I’d been eating like crap too, fortunately I had some [use 00:14:12] off on the side, but that was about it. I said “What’s the first thing I’ve got to do? I’ve got to get back in the gym,” and I started training again, I started working out, I started connecting with those guys in that tribe again. Ultimately, boom, all of a sudden, it’s like I felt that steel, and it’s something about it, by the way. You can relate to this, and maybe you guys can as well. There’s something about the direct competition between steel and man.

It’s like 100 pounds, 10 reps, let’s go. There’s something incredibly satisfying, it’s like dunking is taking a shot and just boom, nailing it. There’s this little satisfaction that we get, dopamine and serotonin release, elevates the [inaudible 00:14:55], just has all this positive effect man. I started to feel that almost immediately, and then connecting with guys that were ambitious, that were pursuing their goals. I said “Let me try it again, let me get back here and maybe do a competition. Competing for the mats, and some of these bigger competitions.” One thing led to another, within 5 years I was leaving that outlaw environment, I won the National Bodybuilding Championship. Certainly everything changed before that, and here’s something else that is an observation, I’m able to make today that I wasn’t able to make then, it was a decision, a conscious decision I made, but it’s an observation I made today. In my mind, and unfortunately I don’t think this is necessarily the process that every bodybuilder goes through, they should, but they don’t. I decided, when I made the decision “I want to be Mr America,” because I saw a guy named Steve Mihalik training … Do you remember Steve Mihalik? Steve Mihalik, God rest his soul …

John Rowley: Passed away a few years ago.

Tom Terwilliger: Looked unbelievable, and he was Mr America, he was training in this beat-up old tank top, and I looked at him, I was like “Oh my God, is it possible for a human being to actually look like that? It’s amazing.” Sure enough, that was the goal, I wanted to be Mr America, right? In my mind, however, Mr America wasn’t just somebody in a beat-up old white beater t-shirt with humongous muscles. My mind said that Mr America was someone intelligent, well-spoken, articulate, and doesn’t use F-words every 3 words, which I’d gotten used to doing. That was my vocabulary. You hang out with the community, in the neighborhood even.

John Rowley: I didn’t know the F-word was a bad word until I went to 1st grade. The nun starts yelling at me, and I wasn’t paying attention to her. She said “You’re not paying attention to me.” I said “You didn’t call me by my name.” She said “I’m calling your name, John.” “It’s not, my name is For God’s Sakes John.” I was always in trouble at home, man. You mentioned something a few minutes ago that I thought was really important. You talked about your physiology. Do you feel that your physiology can control your psychology, or at least have an impact on it?

Tom Terwilliger: Absolutely no doubt. In my mind, Tony Robins teaches some of this as well. Anything in terms of our mind and our body connection, our situation could be called a stake, right? You don’t want people to get into a negative state, it’s like “Holy shit, this guy’s like …” Something happened that pushed their button, and they get stuck in this disempowering state, you might say, and it becomes a mindset. One of the first things you need to do, one of the circumstances, change your physiology, move your body, do something different. If you’re upset, if you’re distraught, if you’re drpressed and you’re sitting there being depressed, you’re not just being, you’re doing depressed.

John Rowley: You’re modelling the depression.

Tom Terwilliger: Exactly it, modelling is the word. You’re doing depression. What can you do immediately to change that? You can get up and you can do something else. “I’m going to go out, I’m going to do athletics, I’m going to go out and do a walk, I’m going to do a run, I’m going to do something else,” and then the second component of that of course is the changing your focus, what you’re focusing on, and your own internal language. The physiology in my opinion is the first thing that can make a radical difference in your mindset, and your particular state in any given moment, no question.

John Rowley: I agree, I mentioned very early on, having panic attacks, and I’m proud of it. I’m going back to that, I’m going to be like, “Once I take control of my physiology, I can get rid of that.” In my own life, I’ve always used my physiology, like in board meetings or whatever else it is, because I find it so important because people are watching you. Your physiology from the outside, but also your physiology from your inside, like you mentioned, you are depressed, because you’re slumping down. What’s the reverse of that? Reverse of that is stand up straight, you move your arms, you talk a little faster, you get a bit more impassioned. What happens, you start feeling better. You teach this in your books, don’t you?

Tom Terwilliger: We do, absolutely. I believe it’s one of the most critical things, because you can know everything there is to know about setting goals and taking action and changing your mindset, but if you find yourself frequently getting stuck in a negative … Some states are good, some are bad. I like to call them empowering and disempowering. It’s simple, you’re either in an empowered state, where you can take some control of your environment, your circumstances or your actions, or you’re in a disempowered state where you feel stuck, you know? First thing you do is you get up, so yeah, I teach this in the 7 Rules of Achievement. At Max Mindset I’ve done several podcasts and blog posts on this particular subject, because it’s so important.

John Rowley: Tom’s podcast is Epic Man,

Tom Terwilliger:

John Rowley: Go to, he’s got a phenomenal podcast. In fact, we recorded his right before we did this one, it’s great. Go to

Tom Terwilliger:, or you can look me up at Max Mindset, we’ve got some great videos. One of the things that I’m doing today that I really love and enjoy doing, it’s challenging, after a while, to do something for 3, 4, 5 years or so and still come up with fresh content and something that’s interesting or re-spin stuff, you know what I mean? On muscle and fitness magazine I do what’s called Max Mindset, we have those videos and we do about 2 a month or so. It’s always fun because it’s something different from muscle and fitness. It’s all mindset.

John Rowley: They’re all good.

Tom Terwilliger: Thank you man, I appreciate it.

John Rowley: A lot of times people read a book, read my books, whatever, and they learn what to do, but they don’t necessarily learn how to do it. I want to ask you what I find a very important question.

Tom Terwilliger: This could be my stumbling block right here.

John Rowley: Give me the day in a life of Tom Terwilliger, because somebody’s going to read your book, “Okay, this is what we need to do, but how does Tom do it?” Give us a day in your life. How do you get up, what time do you get up, how do you eat, work out, train, how do you find time for your wife and everything. How do you live your life, just 1 day?

Tom Terwilliger: Great question, great question. First off, it starts with the planning of the week. Every morning has to start with reviewing what we went over, my wife and I go over our goals and objectives on Sunday nights. Yes, we would much prefer to sit back and watch the Walking Dead, or Sons of Anarchy or something like that, but hey, there’s a job to be done, we want to make sure we’re the most productive we can be for that week coming up, so we set some goals, we set some strategies. We re-visit what was accomplished last week, so we let that go on Friday and Saturday night, but Sunday’s time for review. That feeds, that supports what I do first thing in the morning on Monday, for example. I start the day, every day, it’s actually about 5:00AM, beca I’m in the gym by 6, 6:30. We start about 5:00AM, I get up, I drink water, first thing you do is pound the water. You’re going to get up, you’re going to be dehydrated. Most people aren’t drinking nearly enough water. Mild dehydration will shut down your productivity, your mental process, your cognitive thinking, your physiology faster than you can imagine.

Most of us are chronically dehydrated. I drink a lot of water, I drink about 16 ounces first thing in the morning. My wife taught me that, she insists on it. “You drink enough water today?” When she sees bags under my eyes or I’ve got a little headache, or something, she’s like “Are you drinking enough water today?” I’m like, sure enough, “No,” I had a couple coffees instead. That’s not the way to do it. First thing, 16 ounces of water in the morning, then I shower, brush the teeth, get ready to go, I don’t necessarily review my goals for the day, because now I’m preparing to get to the gym. Believe it or not, I love to say it was something uniquely nutritious that I eat in the morning, but I actually have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the morning.

John Rowley: Do you really?

Tom Terwilliger: Every morning.

John Rowley: That’s funny.

Tom Terwilliger: Every morning. I use gluten-free bread. For what reasons? I have no fricken idea. I said “Hey, it might be healthier, I’m not going to take the chance, right?” I use my organic peanut butter and some really low sugar jam, and that’s my favorite. It gears me up, it’s perfect. I’ve experimented with tons of different types of foods in the morning to be prepared for the workout coming up so my blood sugar doesn’t go up too high or too low or I don’t feel bloated, this is the perfect formula for me. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll work for everybody for that matter. I have my peanut butter and jelly sandwich, about 40 minutes later I’m in the gym. I’m either doing some cardio, because I only train with the strength training weights about 3 times a week. I’m either doing some cardio or strength training, then as soon as I finish that … Usually it was a pretty tough workout. We train … Was it Friday? It was Friday, right, back at 5.

John Rowley: Good workout.

Tom Terwilliger: It was a fun workout, man, it was great.

John Rowley: It was hard.

Tom Terwilliger: You me and Tim, man, we crushed it.

John Rowley: I only cried twice.

Tom Terwilliger: You had an anxiety attack, the second we started, remember that? I go strength training, and when I get home, I’m back home again, that’s when I get back in front of the computer. Of course I should mention that I have a protein drink, a good, solid protein drink, like a UX3. Great stuff, just a really good way protein. I use a little [cridatine 00:23:25], I have some glutamine in there, I do my protein immediately after the workout to get what I need to get back in the game quicker. I feel fatigue for the next couple hours. Then I get home, review the goals and objectives, get on my emails, take a look at what’s happening with the email, see what needs to be done for today. Usually on a Monday we begin the process of producing our next podcasts, which my partner and I do on Monday afternoons. We start doing that. Really it’s sort of business for 2 hours, an hour and a half to 2 hours. My wife and I have our eggs and coffee, it’s our ritual. We all need some rituals, as long as they’re relatively healthy, we should have rituals, you know, right?

John Rowley: I agree.

Tom Terwilliger: We literally, between the 2 of us, we’ll say “Eggs and coffee?” We look at our watch, “Eggs and coffee?” It’s like our ritual thing, you know what I mean? We have our eggs, our coffee, we review because we’re in business together. We kind of go over what’s going on, a little bit of personal, a lot of times just business. We get back up there, back in front of the computers again. I’m making phone calls at this point. About 2 hours later, I eat again. The eating is critical. Just keeping that blood sugar from dropping too much, this is one of the things we all do, is we allow 3, 4, 5 hours to go by without eating, and the blood sugar’s down. As a result, we’re not productive. The day continues like that, eating every 2 hours or so, productive between what needs to be done and what’s going to be done, about producing a webcast or a podcast, or something of that nature. I usually wrap things up at around 7:00 or 8:00 at night, and at that point it’s time to relax. I’ll either read or watch a little television.

John Rowley: What time do you typically go to sleep?

Tom Terwilliger: I try to get to bed by 9:30, so we either read or maybe we’ll watch an episode of the Office, just to kind of relax and chill out. Try to be asleep by 10:00, 10:15.

John Rowley: What did you used to watch, was it the Honeymooners?

Tom Terwilliger: The Honeymooners? [inaudible 00:15:12] We’re going to the moonhouse.

John Rowley: It was only a couple years ago, used to do it every night to watch the Honeymooners.

Tom Terwilliger: The Honeymooners. [inaudible 00:25:20], there’s always something. In fact we just ran out, one of my favorite shows was Hell on Wheels, it’s just like bam, last episode. “Damn, that’s it man.”

John Rowley: We try to keep these within 30 minutes, and I want to have you back again. I want you to … You’re one of my closest friend, I like having you on, you always have so much. Just saying, Tom is one of my mentors. People I bring on here, a lot of them are my personal mentors. Just doing what I would do ordinarily in private, in front of a million people.

Tom Terwilliger: Exactly, we have these same conversations.

John Rowley: In closing, is there anything that I missed? Is there anything you want the audience to know I didn’t touch on or something you’re passionate about that you’d want them to know?

Tom Terwilliger: One of the things I think is so critical, so important for individuals and business owners alike, is revamping and revisiting your goals. If you haven’t set goals, it’s so critical. I know it sounds cliché for the most part, but deciding on what your objectives are to keep you focused and moving in a particular direction … John, I talked about during my podcast, was movement. That God will impact your life, He’ll come, and He’ll step in, but you’ve got to be moving. You’ve got to be in action, you might say. The only way to really do that without just going around in circles is know what you’re heading towards, what’s the objective?

John Rowley: You’re heading somewhere.

Tom Terwilliger: Yeah, absolutely.

John Rowley: One way or the other you’re going somewhere.

Tom Terwilliger: Even if you’re just sitting on the couch doing nothing, you’re going somewhere. You ain’t going fast, but you’re going, right? Set objectives, identify your goals. Another thing too, it’s like, a lot of people, they make this assumption that their mission, their purpose has to be something that just comes to them like a spiritual awakening. It’s not.

John Rowley: Something grandiose.

Tom Terwilliger: It’s not, it’s based on something … Hey, you know something that turns you on, something that fires you up, something that, “Hey, it’s kind of fun, kind of neat, it’s kind of cool to think about that.” “Hey, you know what? Maybe I could do that in my own life, maybe I could do something more, maybe I could challenge myself.” No matter what it is, if you’re challenging yourself you’re going to grow up. Set some objectives, that’s probably the most important thing, and understand why you want to do that. Create motivation.

John Rowley: I agree, why is very powerful., what’s the other website?

Tom Terwilliger:, that’s my blog, so you can go right there.

John Rowley: Go there, it’s all free information, go there, get the information. Tom is actually working on several projects, so go back to those sites on a regular basis, and watch what he’s coming out with. What he’s working on right now, I want to get. Actually, I want an advanced copy of it.

Tom Terwilliger: Thank you man.

John Rowley: Thanks so much for being here.

Tom Terwilliger: My pleasure man, brother. Thanks too, guys.

John Rowley: Guys, go visit Tom, you can also find him on Facebook, right? You’ve got a fanpage on Facebook?

Tom Terwilliger: Yes I do.

John Rowley: Find him on Facebook, social media. I want to thank you for being here, go visit him, go to, take a look around. This week you’ll find the home for the podcast, we’ve got a blog, we’ve got other information there. Or you can go to, it’ll bring you right to the [inaudible 00:28:01]. Thanks so much for joining us today, and God bless you.



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